12 - Balancing Life and Gaming

Divi comes back with us, talking about balancing game time and other important life activities (frequently comes up when a discussion about gaming pop’s up in a casual conversation).

This episode was recorded before the recent denunciations at Blizzard California.

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@Juke_ish (Instagram, Twitch, Twitter)

Perf: twitch.tv/perfectedl

Art by Arielle:  

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Transcript

Juke  0:09  
Hello humans and welcome to getting gamers your Guide to Understanding the gamers in your life. I am Juke, my pronouns are they/them.

Perf  0:17  
My name is Perf, my pronouns I he/him.

Divi  0:20  
My name is Divi, my pronouns are he/him

Juke  0:24  
Yeah, so it's the first time we have a guest back ever since COVID so we were wondering before we jump into our topic, which Oh yeah, our topic today is going to be balancing life and gaming. But before we jump in, I was wondering I guess for both of you, but maybe you could start what games got you through quarantine? 

Divi  0:48  
Hmm, I'm pretty sure it would be heartstone that I played the most during quarantine. we had our little tournament that we do together. And 

Juke  0:57  
there was a few tournaments during quarantine, like two? 

Divi  1:00  
think there was four because there's like one per expansion and they released three expansion per year. So, and it's been like, one year and a half. So yeah, four or five  tournament. It was a way to socialize like little party even during quarantine. So yeah, that's, I think that's the main game I played during quarantine.

Juke  1:25  
And a lot of you guys's friends play. So it's, like, an opportunity to socialize? Because I think it's the the game that I've noticed that from all the friends that I've met so far. Is the game you guys all have in common? versus you're gonna have some Dota people, some Warcraft people, some Hots people, but you all have heartstone in common. And you What would you say that got you through COVID?

Perf  1:51  
Well, you name some of them. Of course, there was Dota two which I've been rekindled with in the last few months. I got you into it a bit too. So that's one thing Heartstone for sure. A game that was very good that I've played with Divi is : it takes two. that's where the game within which Divi became my husband.

Juke  2:22  
Yes. It's true last episode, we did mention that Divi is now considered your husband. Because it takes two

Perf  2:29  
so glad theres proximity now. 

Juke  2:35  
That is a cute game I loved every time I pass by

Divi  2:37  
It was amazing. I was really surprised we had no expectations and it was really good. And our next game would be unraveled two. So this will be our next coop game is like a 2d platformer. So we need to work together to go to through level.

Juke  2:57  
Okay, so it's not platformer. Okay, 2d, like Mario.

Divi  3:02  
Mario boss. Yeah, it's the same principle. But you're two controlling each each character on the screen instead of Mario Bros, Mario Bros. Or you're you're alone?

Juke  3:11  
Yeah. But it takes two was it considered a platform? 

Perf  3:17  
Yeah, 

Divi  3:18  
yes but 3D 

Juke  3:20  
 Yeah. That Yeah, because you saw like from behind and stuff. Okay. That's cool. 

Perf  3:25  
We're linked together in this unravel I think

Divi  3:29  
we can we can we need to link together to do some puzzles. But for other puzzle we need to do a mix of link unlink etc. 

Perf  3:38  
I thought we were stuck together.

Divi  3:40  
 No, its a choice, It looks really promising

Perf  3:46  
 I'm staying linked then.

Juke  3:50  
Oh, that's so cool. I forgot about it takes two

Divi  3:52  
yeah me two

Juke  3:53  
its true you guys played it a lot. I remembered something point. Like Divi had a bad day. And we were doing something and Perf was like when we get home. I'm gonna go play it takes two with Divi, I think he needs it. I was like awn your husband needs you.

Perf  4:09  
That's right. Other than that, there's been a few more games like Resident Evil. A few of them of course, I've been doing some some fast run of the remake from the second one. I've been doing Resident Evil village which is the last one of the series yet 

Juke  4:29  
those are like little expansion sidetings?

Perf  4:32  
 No. Full on big games. 

Juke  4:35  
Oh, interesting.

Perf  4:38  
 But, yeah, that was pretty much it.

Juke  4:40  
Nice. I guess we can jump into the, the topic that we had at hand, which is actually a topic that Divi suggested for the podcast, which is, like I said, balancing life and gaming. And I guess the first place to start is how do we define balance Right? because when I was talking to perf, about creating this episode, one thing that I thought was important to bring up is that I think all of all of us agree that gaming every day can be reasonable. 

Perf  5:15  
Totally, of course. 

Juke  5:17  
So I think I don't know about you guys, but the way I see it when we talk about balance and gaming, for, for me anyways, it would be about how to, like, live a healthy life, and still be able to game every day, if that's what you desire.

Perf  5:34  
As long as it's not taking over your life, meaning you're not eating, you're not doing physical exercise and

Divi  5:42  
see your friends, past time with your family. You have a job. etc

Juke  5:48  
so basically, I think, from what I'm hearing and what we've been kind of discussing before, oh my god, I'm gonna burp

Perf  5:57  
be careful what you wish for yesterday, you wished for that for some reason? 

Juke  6:03  
Okay. But from what I'm hearing from what we've been saying about balance, basically, we're, we're saying, How to Avoid in essence, gaming, becoming addicted. Right? That's how I'm kind of seeing our definition of like, balance in this sense.

Divi  6:26  
Yeah, it's, it's really hard to distinguish those two terms. Because we you can have a balanced life and be dependent. I think, 

Juke  6:38  
wait you can you can, 

Divi  6:39  
you can, 

Juke  6:40  
okay. 

Divi  6:41  
I consider myself addicted to gaming, because I don't see my my life without it. But I can have a balanced life. I can have both. I can be addicted and have a balanced life.

Juke  6:53  
Yeah. So from what I'm hearing about and analogy, I think I would use for non gamers who don't necessarily understand that you can be addicted and still be healthy. I would say like, there is addiction and then there's the addiction that it calls and destabilizes Your Life. There's plenty of addictions that we do see, in day to day life that doesn't destabilize someone's life, like, like, casual smokers, we see smokers all the time. Oh, cool. Yeah. And yes, their bodies are getting these, you know, negative effects of the substance, let's say like nicotine and tobacco and whatnot. But these people are still functional in day to day life. So

Perf  7:33  
that's exactly what what I was about to say, you can still be functional. Yeah. Even if you game every day.

Divi  7:41  
The best is with drugs. I always use that analogy to explain it. You can drink alcohol every day and have a job and have a balanced life materials to an alcoholic. Yeah,

Juke  7:51  
I mean, like I'm Italian and like every time has a glass of wine.

Divi  7:56  
Because other people a few people know that. Not only with alcohol, but if you drink everyday, you are an alcoholic. But people think you need to get drunk all the time. But for me being dependent, maybe I'm wrong, but for me is you need you don't see life without it. This is where you're addicted.

Juke  8:17  
Yeah, I can see that I hadn't considered that that aspect before you brought it up. But I I see it in that aspect now. And I think for the listeners at home, I know we keep promising that we're gonna do an episode about gaming addiction, and it's gonna come up, it's just that we really wanted to hold out for specific guests, which I think now is not going to be really a possibility.

Perf  8:40  
Gonna be very sorry about that. But I don't think it's gonna be a possibility. Yeah, but

Juke  8:44  
we're still gonna do the episode and we might still have guests on and like, I know, we're like teasing you hard with this episode. The mom is out there really want an episode, but like it's coming, I promise. So I guess one of the, like, beginning things that I was really curious about You guys, was basically where you always did you always have a balance, like a good balance of gaming. And you're in your life, like, 

Divi  9:17  
not all the time. 

Perf  9:19  
No, I can't say is always been balanced. 

Juke  9:22  
 you? 

Perf  9:23  
No, no, 

Juke  9:23  
you can't. Okay. 

Divi  9:25  
You learn from it.

Juke  9:26  
Yeah. So like, well leading like from that. What was your wake up call? Like, when when you didn't have that balance? What was the like, okay, like I need to, I need to get my shit together and balanced this out.

Perf  9:43  
But in my case, I knew it was unbalanced at some point whether it was in the darker place in my life. It was in between jobs in school programs. So I had like, three months in which I do didn't do any things I was sort of waiting to go to university. And I was working like 30 hours in a small side job in, in a grocery store. And the only other thing I was doing is training and 60 hours of Dota. Two per week. I knew it wasn't balanced at all. But I also knew it was very temporary situation for me.

Juke  10:29  
Because that's, that's really interesting to me. Because as a person who struggles with impulsivity, and like for the listeners at home, I am like severe ADHD. For me, like hearing someone say, like, Oh, I game 60 hours a week, but I still work a 30 hour week job. And I still do this and that I would have not immediately said that that was unbalanced. But but for you definitely felt unbalanced is what I'm...

Perf  10:58  
yeahh.... I knew it was not a situation in which I could see myself in the long term for sure. But I was very functional and somewhat healthy. I was going to the gym four times a week, and I was working. But I don't think that playing 60 hours a week is something that's sustainable for your body, your mind. I knew it was only for a few, a few weeks or months. But I gotta say it was still a period of time that I enjoyed gaming because it was it was the period of time at which gaming was the... I use gaming as escapism a lot.

Juke  11:43  
But so from what I'm hearing, you're saying that right from the start, you knew that this was going to be like a binge period, and it would not last

Perf  11:53  
yeah clearly.

Juke  11:54  
 So you didn't need like a wake up moment. You You knew that it was like not a permanent thing. Exactly. That's interesting. I think that's a very mature outlook on that how you had like, you handled it very maturely.

Perf  12:11  
Yeah, my my parents were worried about the this period of time, but they didn't know yet. That was it was more depressive period of time for me.  SoThat's why the escapism thing  

Juke  12:28  
you were living at home? 

Perf  12:30  
Yeah, I was living at home. It was my early 20s. 

Juke  12:33  
Okay. Right. And for you did you have like a wake up moment?

Divi  12:40  
The wake up would would have been like, after a full summer of gaming when you don't when you're young and you don't work. You go to schools on the summer, you have plenty of time. And at the end of the summer, I was like, Oh shit, I'm white. Like, I'm not tan at all I did nothing. This was my first wake up call, like, Oh, this summer, that was too much. I don't need to do that. This is my limit.

Juke  13:08  
Yeah, and for the listeners at home have never seen Divi. Divi is a white person, but is the first person to tan. Like I've noticed as soon as winter is over, like even like during, like, pre spring like he's already tan. ridiculous!

Divi  13:22  
Yeah I really have dark skin. So when I'm white, it's either the winter or I spent the summer gaming! one of those.

Juke  13:33  
Well, I think I think that's also like, for a teenager, especially a pretty mature thing to say, Oh shit, I wasted by some or you know, to some extent not necessarily a waste you to do something. But to have that realization on your own as a teenager is is pretty mature, because as a teenager, I had zero self control over how much TV I watched.

Divi  13:53  
Yeah, like, I mean, it's not everybody that would realize this, because we they are some gamers, and it's a problem like and they never realized this, they play all the time. They only do that. Some people don't have a hygiene. They eat like they don't eat, they skip meals and etc. So we had the chance to realize that but some people don't. And those are the one who falls and we in it's so recent in the history. We we have no like few studies in comparison with drugs. So it's really hard to catch these people and know what to do with them. Yeah, but some people it's a problem. Of course, it's like everything else. It's not oh gaming gaming a lot is another problem it can be we need to realize that.

Juke  14:46  
Yeah. And I think that what you mentioned also brings up, adds to what when I was trying to find a definition to balance, hygiene and feeding yourself. I think that comes into that defintion of balance of like that being able to take care of yourself as like, fully, not just like some small aspects.

Divi  15:09  
So if you know somebody that fails at hygiene or eating, it's a sign. It's really like, pretty advanced. 

Perf  15:19  
It's a big tell that It's taking over your life.

Juke  15:22  
Yeah. And so for you guys, when when you had that realization, let's say, of like, Oh, I, I spent my whole summer doing this, this can't work or for you like, this is a momentary thing. Even for you Perf even though you knew from the whole time that this was not going to be something that you maintained gaming as much. It's still a habit that you develop over those months. What were your like techniques for getting yourself out of that? Basically, like, what what what did what tips or did you? Did you go online and research like how to game less? Or did you just like slap yourself across the face and be like, deal with it, bitch.

Perf  16:02  
I'm gonna be real honest, it was. I knew i was going to go to university. So I was just maintaining this a bit without any tips. I was just I was trying to get better at the game, so I was just engaging myself in it. I wish I had tips for you guys. But uh, I don't think it was a good period. I don't, I don't think it's something you should do. I'm not an example.

Juke  16:34  
But like, when you stop, like you just snapped out of it. Or you were like, Okay, I'm gonna set myself a limit of three hours a day or

Perf  16:43  
I snapped out of it because I had to move. I went to Sherbrooke for university. And, and, right, right when I started school again, I just didn't have enough time to keep going this way. So

Juke  16:59  
yeah, but so from what I'm hearing from that, if I'm if I'm trying to pull a tip out of that for you, there was a big, a big change in your life, you moved out of home, you moved into a new city in an apartment with friends, all of a sudden you had rent to pay, and and universities and next level of school to go to so if I were to listen to what you went through and try to take tips out of that, I would basically say the same thing I say to people, when they're trying to get over a breakup, you have to change your environment, which literally if you're if you're living in the same space, move the furniture around in your office, it will make a huge difference. And this works for this works for breakups, too, is like one of the best tips you give to someone who can't get over a breakup is move your furniture around, make the change the outlook have the space to really bring yourself to this new life you're trying to move forward to

Perf  17:48  
clearly having another life project is life saving in this way. Because I had to put my mind on getting my degree. So

Juke  18:00  
because like when you moved to Sherbrooke, you moved in with two other gamers. So it could have it could have continued just as bad.

Perf  18:10  
could have. But I knew I knew I wanted to have my degree to get a job. And I had some plans on life too. So I could get I could fall back on that.

Juke  18:23  
Yeah, and for those at home, like if you're a gamer that's struggling with this, like don't use birth as an example. He has a level of self discipline. I've never seen anyone else.

Perf  18:34  
Yeah, it's true. I have a very high level of self self control.

Juke  18:37  
Yeah. So for you, did you have any, you know, things tips and tricks to do Google stuff to help you out? Or?

Divi  18:48  
No, I think like I think school. Like having like success in school was my motivation to not gain because you cannot game all day and have good grades unless you're a genius, but I wanted to like because my parents paid for my scholarship. So if I failed, I was like bruh 

Juke  19:14  
So from what I'm hearing you guys both had like this extra this new motivation to thrive and something else that kind of helped so for people like me who like did not care about school at that age, I guess it would be that like start learning something else and just give yourself more new projects.

Divi  19:34  
I think like gaming is really nice, but just try really hard to find one other thing, its a sport, musical instrument, artistic like paint, whatever. Just one other thing. It will automatically help balance your life because you will be prone to do it from time to time instead of gaming. So

Juke  19:57  
And in talking about the whole balance again, I remember hearing you. I don't remember when talking to someone about the like, 1/3 1/3 1/3 model of life, like separating your day into thirds. Do you want to elaborate about that?

Divi  20:10  
I don't think it was. It wasn't me, was it? Oh, no, again. I don't think it was me.

Juke  20:15  
Okay, cuz I remember hearing maybe it was at the chalet. I remember hearing someone talk about like the the model of like you spent a third of your life sleeping, a third of your life working, and a third of your life is for you. And so I think also, if you're if you're more mathematical brain like me, let's say who's who loves like scheduling and agendas and stuff, you see it that way, like you do spend hours, 24 hours in a day, you spend eight hours of it sleeping, hopefully, around eight hours of it sleeping. So that's a third of your day, and eight hours of it working or eight hours of it working at school, just that's the work aspect of it. And then the other eight hours is for you. But you have to remember that in there, there's still making yourself food and taking your shower and stuff. So I, I would maybe suggest looking at that eight hours that you have for yourself a day. And blocking it out if you need to write like saying okay, normally I spend about like, an hour, making supper and eating. spend an hour on hygiene, like total, let's say like, if you add up like morning and night and everything. And then and then exactly like making me figuring out what else you have left in that. Maybe five hours, let's say that's left on your eight hours and, and really separating it out and saying okay, how much time do I actually want to allow myself to game and putting an alarm like in the ADHD world setting alarms and timers for yourself is huge. It's it's a tip that we give to a lot of neuro divergent people, is to really like set a timer and when it goes off, then you know, and and you do have to have that level of self discipline of like, when the timer does go off, you do have to get up, you know. But I do understand that that can be hard for a lot of people, to like, I know a lot of people they have a hard time. Like if you set your own alarm respecting it when there's no one else but you expecting yourself too

Perf  22:20  
I said earlier that I have a good amount of self control. But setting alarms and planning things is not my thing.

Juke  22:30  
Yeah, that's definitely something I've noticed in you as well

Perf  22:37  
it's not a good tip for me necessarily, but I'm pretty sure you could help a lot of people out there.

Juke  22:41  
Yeah, and it's exactly to figure out what works for you. If you if you start setting alarms and it doesn't work for you. You can't just then get discouraged and say, Oh, well, I'm never gonna get over this problem. Because the alarm trick didn't work. No, the alarm trick didn't work for you. Now you got to find something else, you know, again, it could be like grubby. You know, if after, whenever you win or lose a game, you have to do squats, or stuff like that. 

Perf  23:11  
We had been doing that for a certain amount of time playing hearthstone

Juke  23:15  
Yeah, or exactly a bit kind of like what we did a bit of an accountability partner in the sense of like, when Perf and I would play Hearthstone loser had to do push ups. You can kind of have that weird friend of saying like, Look, Bro, I need accountability, because either you keep having me as a friend to play with, or rot away in conflict with you anyway. So um, and you'll be surprised how many of your friends are going to be willing to help you out because you guys have been practicing teamwork, like for years, right? So if you ask one of the guys that you game with to help you out, I have a strong feeling that he would because y'all have been building teamwork and team etiquette for whatever many years.

Perf  24:00  
Are you ready for chin ups Divi? 

Divi  24:06  
Not chin ups everything but that 

Perf  24:09  
that's what you need. I know it!

Juke  24:12  
and maybe in the motivation like to help motivate people towards that balance. And what changes Did you guys notice in your lives once you have once you did reach that kind of balance state of gaming? 

Divi  24:28  
Hmm, 

Perf  24:29  
that is a good question.

Divi  24:31  
Because it's on a long term so you don't see immediate effects. Just like you keep your friends so you don't realize it but by not gaming and see your friends and your non gamer friends I would say you keep them so because if you never talked to them and never do anything with them. With the normal course of things you will lose them and keep relation with your your family as well. And You develop other skills. So it's all those little things that you don't see immediate effects, but are worth it. And important.

Juke  25:11  
Yeah, I think something I've noticed, like at some point, you just decided you wanted to pick up the piano. Yeah. And like you had the space in your life to do that. Because you you knew how to balance things at that point.

Divi  25:23  
Yeah, it's, it's a main point why I bought the piano. It's right beside my computer. So when I game and I feel like taking a break, I just move right beside and I do 15/20 minutes. So and a lot of times, so it's those all those minutes count up, and you learn new skills, and you do something else. So

Juke  25:49  
yeah, and to be fair with the discipline, and the balance that Divi learned, he wrote songs on the piano that I wanted to learn since high school, and just never sat the fuck down to do it. And now he learned it before me. So like, there's value there like that discipline, I guess it's kind of a muscle that the more you work it, the better, easier it gets.

Divi  26:11  
Yes and its like that for everything in life, and the harder you work, the better results you will have. So, but it can apply in gaming too. If you really want to be good at the game, you need to work to get it. So

Juke  26:23  
yeah. And that's a good point thatPerf you had mentioned when we were talking about planning this episode was for a lot of games. Daily gaming is necessary. If you want to be good, and not just casual.

Perf  26:37  
Yeah, it's not. It's not an option to play every day, at least a few hours, let's say around two hours. To get better and to understand everything about any given game. That's let's say, any competitive game. But yeah, to answer the previous question, clearly having a more balanced gaming diet allowed me to have some more time for other projects like like this podcast. Yeah, of course, because it's a it's eating away some time, but I enjoy I enjoy it. What else have I done with all this time?

Juke  27:20  
You're pretty like gym buff guy like the did balancing gaming help you like with your physical fitness in anyway?

Perf  27:29  
Yeah, just a bit because I've been taking a long break of gym, but clearly that lately we've been going back together. And if it wasn't for a balanced gaming diet, I don't think we could have been doing that. So I'm grateful for balance. Yeah.

Divi  27:49  
That's a good point. The fitness like because the, in my opinion, the biggest weakness of gaming is downside I would say is sedentary. Like, you don't move you're not in you don't do exercise, of course. So it's an it's the best activity to have. Like, with gaming, in parallel of gaming would be to do a sport or any kind of physical activity. Because this is the greatest balance you will you will get

Juke  28:26  
and covered in the benefits of gaming. I think the sports are going to make you a better gamer.

Divi  28:32  
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. All the pro gamers that are in the league and the team, they have a really strict diet and and a big part of the diet is to make exercise at the precise time of the day. To to have a clear mind because sports give brings you that.

Juke  28:48  
So I guess if we're talking about motivators for balancing gaming, one of the big things is if you do add physical fitness to your

Divi  28:54  
its the best is the best 

Juke  28:55  
Yeah,

Perf  28:55  
its gonna help for sure is going to help your metabolism go faster. Your in mind be clear, like Divi said

Juke  29:02  
Your sex life

Perf  29:03  
Your sex life is gonna be clearly better to on the side for cardiovascular excersize And it just it's also going to alleviate any tensions in your body. which can affect your react reaction time with keyboard and mouse.

Juke  29:23  
Mm hmm. Yeah, well, because when you were, you were working a really intense office job. And you were basically gaming on an office and at work at an office. You started feeling like the negative effects of that on your body.

Perf  29:39  
Yeah, and he's made it was making me even some time but it's it's under control now, but I had pain in my arms and my back.

Divi  29:48  
And now you play with a dick!

Perf  29:51  
Looks like a big dig dick but It's a vertical mouse but it's needed if there's a big difference. In the ergonomic

Juke  30:03  
yeah. Oh, yeah. ergomn... Oh, no, no, I don't have a good ergonomics. Yeah. 

Perf  30:11  
Anyways,

Juke  30:12  
if I remember listeners, I'm gonna try to post a perf's mouse just so you understand what Divi means by dick and for those of you who have arm problems it, it could help, my mom actually got a mouse like that because perf talked about it

Perf  30:26  
really ? nice

Juke  30:28  
 Yeah,

Perf  30:28  
yeah, sometimes I never thought I'd get to that point but my mouse can actually fall. 

Juke  30:33  
oh cz it tips over?

Divi  30:35  
yeaaah

Perf  30:35  
once we were gaming and He hear the big long Tok  and im like oh yeah my mouse fell on the side , ill send a picture, but yeah, exercise is good.

Divi  30:57  
Yeah, yeah, we've been told that forever. It's true for gaming and even even even truer Yeah, we can say that?

Juke  31:07  
Yeah. I mean, I say it. Okay.

Perf  31:10  
 truer version of friends Canadian shenanigans. Yeah. 

Juke  31:16  
That's the thing whenever people ask me, like, is that a word in English, I was, like, I say it.

Um, but so if I'm looking at my list of things that I wanted to talk, we, we kind of looked for tips to how to balance right? Changing your environment, to set yourself your mindset to a new life and

Perf  31:37  
adding another hobby in which you can invest more time.

Juke  31:41  
Yeah, setting alarms, a bunch of stuff like that. And then tips for noticing that you're unbalanced. We said kind of like hygiene. eating properly. Honestly. aggressivity. If you notice that you're irritable when you're not gaming. Mm hmm. That's an issue. You know, like, if you notice that you're irritable when you don't have your coffee. That's a sign that you were a little bit too dependent on your coffee, which I think is something people relate to a lot.

Perf  32:12  
I remember I have another tips. Yeah. Another tip for you guys. And it's related to, let's say ending a streak of gaming. If If you managed to be able to stop on a lose, it's gonna be very beneficial to your sleep schedule.

Divi  32:37  
Yep. That is, this is exactly what I was about to say, 

Perf  32:41  
Oh, yeah, we're connected again. Yeah, cuz I know, it's hard. And maybe it's more gambling, like, like, you lose, and then you have to win your MMR back or your, your honour back. So you you roll again, you play again, what it makes is, since your mindset is already a bit fucked, your more you're more likely to lose again. And then you don't have any more time. And yeah, so you leave, you leave your gaming session, even more drained, unhappy, and then you go sleep with their negative emotions. So the how power is going to be on you to discover, but if you can manage to let go that last game that didn't go that that well...

Divi  33:35  
 try back again tomorrow. 

Perf  33:37  
Yeah, it's gonna be very beneficial. When you find that level of comfort with losing games.

Juke  33:43  
When I when I used to think about gambling, I've never gambled in my life, I don't even play the lottery. It's just not the type of thing that was instilled in my life. But I thought if you lose all your money, then you walk away because you have no more money. But for a lot of people who are gambling, when they lose all their money, then they want to win it back. So they in debt themselves to try to win back their money and it's this whole vicious cycle and I had never realized that that would be a thing in gaming but because for me like at some point, if I keep losing, I'm just like, okay, whatever and i leave because I'm not that much into gaming, I've just started getting into gaming, but I can understand because whatPerf mentioned earlier, MMR, The more you win, the higher your rating is and you get matched with better people in your in your games. And that's a bit what we were saying also about, like certain games, you have to play at least once a day, a few hours a day, because you want to play against people who are good and not against people who are just learning because then the game is not interesting. So on that aspect, I don't actually remember what the M and the M mean, but the R means rating, 

matchmaking rating 

okay,

Divi  34:53  
is the same. Similar to ello in chess 

Juke  34:57  
lo? 

Divi  34:58  
elo

Juke  34:59  
elo

Divi  35:01  
yeah,its the rating for chess. it's similar. It's the same principle.

Juke  35:06  
Yeah. So on that aspect, like, it's understandable, because in a sense, when you keep losing, you're losing that money in a sense of your ranking. So yeah, I get it that you keep wanting to fix it, especially like I heartstone. I'm finally like, hitting gold, which I never thought I would get. And when I was talking to Perf the other day, I was like, I just want to hit gold, because then I can't lose it. Because its like a plateau. Yeah. And I was like, because once I hit gold, then I can like experiment and lose a bunch of games play fun stuff, because I'm, I'll be comfortable there. And especially with certain games that have like this rotation to it. You want to hit a certain rankings, so that when things like rotate out of the game, you climb back faster. If your ranking is better, I'm a noob. Trying to explain this to other noobs. So it's really hard. But that's basically it. And  for me, it was really fascinating when perf brought that up of like learning to leave on a lost because it was never something I had encountered before.

Perf  36:13  
Yeah, because I had a few friends that that were very affected by this concept of not being able to let go. And it's it's the downfall of many gamers out there. I'm pretty sure about that

We all have been through that. been there done that. 

Juke  36:31  
Oh, yeah. Is there specific games that have triggered that 

Divi  36:34  
for me its hero's of the storm all the way

Juke  36:36  
Oh, yeah. 

Divi  36:37  
Oh, yes. 

Juke  36:38  
Oh, and you?

Perf  36:39  
I've been doing this with Heroes of the Storm a bit too. Even Gears of War back back in the days when I was a teenager. But I have to say that I I got over that pretty quickly. Because I didn't want to this these negative emotions stick with me for too long.

Divi  36:58  
And Starcraft two was a big one too. Because in HOTS You have teammates, random teammates, you so you lose. Sometimes it's your fault. Sometimes it's not. So you, it's a little bit easier to let it go. But in starcraft 2 It's all the way your fault. Yeah. So you take it way more personally, and you really want to play that other game to get back to points your last. So it was another good one, that I had this feeling. I slept at one in the morning. Because of that a lot of times when they of course had eight o'clock so and you sleep not good. It's not good sleep.

Juke  37:39  
Yeah, well, that's also something that will perf was mentioning, we glossed over it really quickly. But if you keep, like playing after loss, because you want to win, you, you're entering that game and like a more negative mindset, so you're more likely to lose again. And it's kind of this vicious cycle. So if I'm trying to tip again, like, this is never something I've struggled with, because I don't I'm just starting to get into gaming, and I've never gambled. But if I'm trying to think about like a habit to develop out of that, I would say, if it's something you struggle with, maybe every time you lose, get up and walk around your apartment, or get up and walk around your house, just to like clear your mind. Because anyways, playing play right away is not the best outcome. So just having that habit of like when you lose, getting up walking around, maybe doing some squats, some push ups to get your brain flowing and stuff, then it might make it easier to step away when it's time to go to bed, even though you lost and stuff like that. So like maybe developing that type of habit might help but again, never something I struggled with. So maybe maybe the tip is maybe my my tip is useless. But

Perf  38:48  
no, it is a good tip. Just take some distance, maybe let it be just to five minutes to clear your mind.

Divi  38:55  
It's hard to do, but it's, it's really, really good to do it.

Juke  38:59  
And I would say also, um, like whenever I think about when I give tips to people, like when I give tips to people who are have a hard time communicating, I say hey, go look at tips for people on the spectrum of autism. Because the tips for those people in communications are really like more elaborated because these are people who really need those tips or if you have problems with impulsivity, but you're not ADHD, you can still go look up those the tips that they give to ADHD people because they will be more like elaborative and more efficient. So because like the studies on gaming are, are still being developed and stuff like that. gaming addiction is classified still, I think as in the same category as gambling addiction, and there is a lot, a lot, a lot A lot of resources for gambling addiction. So if you do struggle with these things, maybe it could be a really good section of research for you to do in In tips for people who are addicted to gambling, because those tips will apply to you, and they can help you. So I think that might be a good resource because I mean, on this podcast, we're three people, and two gamers and a noob. So there's only so much we can give you. So I hope that this episode was helpful to anyone out there who needs it, or any parent out there that's worried about their kid. Hopefully, this episode can help. And maybe this episode is a great way to reach out to them and 

Perf  40:31  
open a conversation.

Divi  40:32  
I think to resume like, this podcast would be to say like, it's A OK to game every day, a couple of hours per day, no problem, like parents and kids need to understand that. It's, but it's as important to do something else, that this is really the point of this book. Yes. If I'm not wrong,

Juke  40:53  
yeah, I completely agree with that. And I think on that aspect of why we keep saying that it's okay to game every day is that if you're adding that pressure, and like guilt on yourself, it's too much like you need you need to be able to work on yourself. And, and, and adding extra weight is not going to help 

Divi  41:10  
because this was like, for me, personally, this was a big pain point. Having this pressure this, your parents tell you to not do it, the society tells you to not do it. So you feel like crap. So if I had a model to that, that told me Oh, no, it's do it. It would have like release all that pressure, it would have been really great.

Juke  41:33  
And if you're a gamer, and you're worried about like what your parents or girlfriend might be saying. A great comeback if we can say is if they criticize how much you game ask them how often how much TV they watch.

Divi  41:48  
 Yeah, exactly, 

Juke  41:49  
because gaming is more productive than watching TV. 

Divi  41:53  
Absolutely 10 times At least 

Perf  41:58  
a lot more. 

Juke  41:58  
So, we're gonna add MMR to the gamer gamer glossary. 

Perf  42:02  
I think It's already there. 

Juke  42:03  
Oh, my bad, then I should have know. But again, if ever you're looking for times if there's stuff we said that you didn't understand. GettingGamers.com has a great gaming glossary that we update with every episode. And if anything else you could find us at Getting Gamers on Facebook and Twitter and Twitch even though we don't stream on that account. But you can always ask us questions give us topic ideas. We are all here for it and we try to make episodes to respond to whatever tips and tricks and questions that we do get. And you can find me at Juke underscore ish on Twitter, Instagram, twitch and I think that's pretty much it

Perf  42:47  
and you can find me on Twitch at the perfected within an L after the d. 

Divi  42:56  
What's after the D? hahah

Perf  43:00  
That would be you hahaha

Juke  43:06  
You Divi Did you have you're not really a social media person.

Divi  43:11  
Yeah, no Twitch, no Instagram. Nothing. 

Juke  43:14  
no divi for you thirsty goats

Divi  43:16  
I stay in my cave and play video games. 

Juke  43:21  
All right, then GG guys. 

Perf  43:23  
GG.

Divi  43:23  
GG

job's done.